Finishing the Dangerous Parables of Enoch (Part 4) - Episode 112

Carey Griffel: [00:00:00] Welcome to Genesis Marks the Spot, where we raid the ivory tower of biblical theology without ransacking our faith. My name is Carey Griffel, and welcome back to what I really do think is my last episode on the parables of Enoch. At least, unless I get a question about it, and then maybe I'll re address a lot of this stuff.

But for today, I do plan on finishing reading the parables of Enoch. So we are in the third parable, and I will be reading chapter 64 to chapter 71. So I'm pretty much gonna jump right in here. But I do want to have a brief reminder of the parables that we have read before. The first parable was centered on the fate of the righteous and the wicked.

The second parable is centered on the [00:01:00] fate of the wicked. And here we introduce the Son of Man language. We have some context that calls back to the Book of the Watchers as well, which again is the first part of First Enoch.

The third parable that we have is about the elect, but we will also see material about the flood, and we have Noah mentioned, and that is a little bit strange, as we saw last time. We do see the Son of Man as the Messiah again, but we also see Enoch being called the Son of Man, and that has been connected back to his lineage with Adam.

Because of the focus on the Flood, we're going to get back very strongly into the context of the Watchers and angelic sin and its effects today. Let's keep an eye out for salvation, and repentance, and sin, and all of these kinds of ideas. Because in the future, I want to talk a little bit more about [00:02:00] how the flood parallels the eschaton. And I want you to think about the connections there as we read, and I want you to think about what they mean for salvation.

I have some reasons for suggesting that because I want to ask, do we really have a difference in salvation between the Old Testament and the New Testament? That might kind of be a shocking question, but look, it's just a question. It's a question I think that we should really ask. And if we do have a difference in salvation, what is that difference specifically? Now, of course, we do have Jesus coming incarnate into the world, and that changed everything. And I'm not saying that has nothing to do with salvation. But these are questions that I think Christians ought to be asking, because we do wonder often, what about people who have never heard of Jesus? And so, this kind of question between the Old Testament and the New Testament [00:03:00] can kind of shed light on our thoughts there.

I'm not trying to answer anything definitively here, but I think it's something that we can ponder over time that is useful to us. I also think the question can parallel the other question of evil and its influence and origin. If we think that evil or sin began in the Old Testament narrative, then how would it be that God's interaction with the cosmos through that time in the Old Testament doesn't say something about how we should view salvation in general and God's interaction with humanity, especially when we're looking at the source and the structure I might say of Salvation

Now I understand that a lot of Christians are kind of content to leave these in kind of simplistic form in our minds. And fair enough, does it really [00:04:00] matter what all of these details really amounts to when what we should be worried about is our relationship with God and how we are walking that out in life?

And fair enough, I'm not trying to overly complicate things, but at the same time, I know that a lot of people are thinking about these things and actually struggling with these things when it comes to faith, so I think these are fair questions. And I'm not a person to shy away from really hard questions in thinking that we can actually ponder those and tackle them, not that we have to even get to an answer.

For me, the point of the question is the journey and the exploration, and not just to get to a single destination. Now, in a sense, there is a single destination and a single focus that we can have, because we have faith in God, and this is where our allegiance should be. And [00:05:00] indeed everything that we're reading here in 1 Enoch, points to that message.

Even though, as I will say again, 1 Enoch is not a canonical text, it is not scripture, we shouldn't be reading this as if it is the inspired word of God. But, as I've said many times before, it is instructive to get our minds back into the mind of the ancient person. And what was the first century Jew thinking when Jesus steps onto the scene?

These are really good questions and really good things to ponder for our own Bible study and our own relationships with God and with each other in the church because discipleship and the way that we're walking out wisdom is really important to how we are living out our faith.

All right, so that's just a little bit of some thoughts to set things up for you today. [00:06:00] Let's go ahead and read chapter 64, and again, I am reading from Dr. Michael Heiser's A Companion to the Book of Enoch, A Reader's Commentary, Volume 2. And I really highly recommend these two volumes. If you want to know a little bit more about the Book of Enoch, read it yourself and get some commentary on it.

Chapter 64 is a really short chapter. It says, quote, And other forms I saw hidden in that place. I heard the voice of the angel saying, These are the angels who descended to the earth and revealed what was hidden to the children of men, and seduced the children of men into committing sin. End quote.

Okay, so we have the context of Genesis 6, we have the context of the Book of the Watchers, we have the context of hidden revelation that people weren't supposed to have.

[00:07:00] From the Book of the Watchers, we know that that kind of thing was metallurgy and things that led to war. And things that led to women seducing men, like makeup and things like that, as well as pharmaceuticals, drugs, and all of that kind of thing.

Now, seduction is mentioned here, but it is the seduction of the children of men into committing sin. So, here in this chapter, we do not have the context of sexual sin in Genesis 6.

All right, so our next chapter, we are finally going to have Noah actually mentioned. You might remember from last time that chapter 60 was about the flood and Noah, but Noah was not named. And here, we finally have the name of Noah showing up, and we have Noah seeing.

And there's going to be some differences between what we read in this chapter [00:08:00] and what we read in Genesis. Noah sees what's going on, and he goes to the ends of the earth, and he cries out to Enoch, and Noah wants to know what the deal is. What is going on here on earth?

And as I'm reading this myself, it seems to me that this passage really gives credence to the idea of Enoch as the Son of Man. We obviously also have the idea of intercession here, and all of what that means. But I think it's possible that we could see the intercession specifically because of Enoch's special role as the Son of Man, which up to this point has only been kind of hinted at, and you could ignore it if you really wanted to.

I'm going to split this chapter up in reading. Let's read the first part. Chapter 65. Quote. And in those days, Noah saw the earth, that it had [00:09:00] sunk down, and its destruction was nigh. And he arose from thence, and went to the ends of the earth, and cried aloud to his grandfather Enoch, And Noah said three times, with an embittered voice, Hear me, hear me, hear me.

And I said unto him, Tell me what it is that is falling out on the earth, That the earth is in such evil plight and shaken, Lest perchance I shall perish with it. And thereupon there was a great commotion on the earth, And a voice was heard from heaven, And I fell on my face.

And Enoch my grandfather came and stood by me, And said unto me, Why hast thou cried unto me with a bitter cry, and weeping? End quote.

Okay, so remember, we're kind of thinking about the context of the flood, the causes of the flood, and the origin, or at least the proliferation of sin. We're gonna get some [00:10:00] answers to that here as we read.

The secret teachings is very much associated with what's going on here at the time. There's violence as well, the violence of the Satans, and yes, we're using that term in plural here. The term Satan can just mean adversary. And the violence of the Satans is parallel to the secrets that are given.

We have mention of sorcery, witchcraft. Molten images, silver, metal, and all of that kind of thing. Enoch is going to give Noah the revelation about what's going on, whereas, of course, in Genesis, we have God speaking to Noah.

Really interesting note towards the end, is that Noah's name is destined to be among the holy and preserved, and his seed shall be a fountain of righteousness. Noah is stated as the patriarch of [00:11:00] kings here.

Alright, chapter 65, starting in verse 6. Quote, And a command has gone forth from the presence of the Lord concerning those who dwell on the earth, that their ruin is accomplished, because they have learnt all the secrets of the angels, and all the violence of the Satans, and all their powers, the most secret ones. And all the power of those who practice sorcery and the power of witchcraft, and the power of those who make molton images for the whole earth and how silver is produced from the dust of the earth and how soft metal originates in the earth, for lead and tin are not produced from the earth like the first. It is a fountain that produces them. And an angel stands therein. And that angel is pre eminent.

And after that, my grandfather Enoch took hold of me by my hand and raised me up and said unto me, Go, for I have asked the Lord of Spirits as touching this [00:12:00] commotion on the earth. And he said unto me, because of their unrighteousness, their judgment has been determined upon, and shall not be withheld by me forever, because of the sorceries which they have searched out and learnt.

The earth and those who dwell upon it shall be destroyed, and these, they have no place of repentance forever, because they have shown them what was hidden, and they are the damned. But as for thee, my son, the Lord of Spirits knows that thou art pure and guiltless of this reproach concerning the secrets, and he has destined thy name to be among the holy, and will preserve thee among those who dwell on the earth, and has destined thy righteous seed both for kingship and for great honors, and from thy seed shall proceed a fountain of the righteous and holy, without number, forever. End quote.

All right. Oh, and another thing to mention here in this chapter that I just read is that the fountain [00:13:00] that is producing lead and tin from the earth is being guarded by an angel. Very interesting and very in line with what we're seeing with the meteorological phenomena and how angels are in charge of those things as well.

Chapter 66 is fairly short. We will see the angels of punishment that are prepared to let loose the powers of the waters. And a command to hold them in check.

Chapter 66. Quote. And after that, he showed me the angels of punishment who are prepared to come and let loose all the powers of the waters, which are beneath in the earth in order to bring judgment and destruction on all who abide and dwell on the earth.

And the Lord of Spirits gave commandment to the angels who were going forth, that they should not cause the waters to rise, but should hold them in check, for those angels were over the [00:14:00] powers of the waters, and I went away from the presence of Enoch. End quote.

Okay, so we still have the context of this is Noah watching all of this and getting some revelation. Now, when it says the angels of punishment, when we've seen those before, they have been in the form of eschatological angels of punishment who are over what we might call hell or that kind of torturous thing that's going on, and here we have angels of punishment with the flood that are going to let loose of the waters. Are these the same angels? Not necessarily.

Okay, chapter 67. We're going to have the word of the Lord. That's something familiar to us as Bible readers. We have Noah still. And a really interesting aspect of this chapter is that we have angels who are making the [00:15:00] ark. Here, we don't have Noah making the ark. We have angels making it.

So what do we make of differences like that when we have a text like 1st Enoch here and we compare that to the biblical text and we presume that the person who is writing and reading this new text of 1st Enoch holds scripture in a high view, right? We presume that. We presume that they are seeing Genesis as Holy Scripture that is not to be changed.

And yet, they go and do things like this. And change the building of the Ark from Noah to the angels. And as far as I know, this is the only ancient text we have where the angels are doing the building of the Ark, as opposed to Noah.

In the parallel Ancient Near Eastern Flood accounts, we have the man who is being preserved also [00:16:00] building their boat. So this is a really strange detail here in chapter 67. Why do they change things? And we can only guess. We can only presume some motives and ideas as to why they would change something. And I haven't seen a good answer for this. But we do know that by this time, there has been a lot of development and change in the thought of how the heavens and the earth relate, and how God relates to people, and how angels fit into all of that.

Lots of different changes over time with the ideas there. Sometimes there's more mediation. And maybe that's why we have this. Not only are the angels in charge of punishment, but the angels are also in charge of rescuing Noah. Perhaps that might be a reason. I don't know, but obviously we have a lot of angelic involvement here.

[00:17:00] Alright, so we're going to go ahead and read chapter 67, and we just read how Enoch was talking to Noah, and now we're going to switch over to God talking to Noah. Why the difference? I don't know. It's possible these were different texts that were stitched together. Who knows?

But at any rate, chapter 67 says, And in those days, the word of God came unto me, and he said unto me, Noah, thy lot has come up before me, a lot without blame, a lot of love and uprightness.

And now the angels are making a wooden building, and when they have completed that task, I will place my hand upon it and preserve it, and there shall come forth from it the seed of life, and a change shall set in, so that the earth will not remain without inhabitant.

And I will make fast thy seed before me forever and ever. And I will spread abroad those who dwell with [00:18:00] thee. It shall not be unfruitful upon the face of the earth, but it shall be blessed and multiply on the earth in the name of the Lord.

And he will imprison those angels who have shown unrighteousness in that burning valley, which my grandfather Enoch had formerly shown to me in the west among the mountains of gold and silver and iron and soft metal and tin.

And I saw that valley in which there was a great convulsion and a convulsion of the waters. And when all this took place from that fiery molten metal and from the convulsion thereof in that place, there was produced a smell of sulfur. And it was connected with those waters, and that valley of the angels who had led astray mankind, burned beneath the land, and through its valleys proceed streams of fire, where these angels are punished who had led astray those who dwell upon the earth.

But those waters shall in those days serve for the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who [00:19:00] dwell on the earth, for the healing of the body, but for the punishment of the spirit. Now their spirit is full of lust, that they may be punished in their body. For they have denied the Lord of Spirits, and see their punishment daily, and yet believe not in his name.

And in proportion as the burning of the bodies becomes severe, a corresponding change shall take place in their spirit for ever and ever. For before the Lord of Spirits, none shall utter an idle word. For the judgment shall come upon them, because they believe in the lust of their body, and deny the Spirit of the Lord.

And those same waters shall undergo a change in those days, for when the angels are punished in these waters, these water springs shall change their temperature, and when the angels ascend, the waters of the springs shall change and become cold. And I heard Michael answering and saying, This judgment wherewith the angels are judged is a testimony for the kings and the mighty who possess the earth, [00:20:00] because these waters of judgment minister to the healing of the body of the kings, and the lust of their body, therefore, they will not see and will not believe that those waters will change and become a fire which burns forever. End quote.

Okay, so this last part's really kind of weird, isn't it? So I think we can place this in pretty good, solid historical context. I talked last time about the few things that we have in the parables of Enoch that encourage a dating before Christ, and this is probably one of them.

What it's referencing here is probably a particular hot springs that particular kings were visiting. It might be a little bit hard to follow along with what the text is saying here. But basically it's talking about, like, a volcanic mountain, and this is where the angels who sinned in Genesis are being punished underneath the valleys.

They're being punished by fire under the [00:21:00] mountain. And so there's hot springs, and that's why the water is hot, because the angels are being punished underground, right? So this is kind of a logical supposition. And as long as the waters are hot, you can presume that the angels are being punished.

But at some point, the angels are going to be taken out of these fiery pits underground, and the sign for that is that the waters are going to go cold. And so when we notice the waters going cold, well that's a sign of the end times, basically.

And this is supposed to be a warning to the kings. But we know the kings are going there for healing and for recreation and all of that kind of thing, just like we go to hot springs today.

I'm going to read from Dr. Heiser's reader's commentary, where he quotes from Nickelsburg and Vanderkam. Quote, The paradoxical presence of churning waters in the fiery valley [00:22:00] suggests an allusion to the flood that is consistent with the violent imagery in chapter 66. The subterranean waters that will engulf the inhabitants of the earth in the flood are here instrumental in the punishment of the angels. The churning of the waters, moreover, is associated with the gushing of a fiery molten metal which recalls the angels prediction that the metallic mountains will melt before the presence of the Chosen One. That's in chapter 52. The mention of subterranean hot springs that generate the smell of sulfur refers to the environs of, and I'm sorry, I have no idea how to pronounce that, Caleroe? I don't know. It's a location, okay, it's a geographical location of some sort where there are hot springs.

And the attribution of this smell to the activity of fiery molten metal may indicate that this author has experienced or knows [00:23:00] accounts of volcanic eruptions. Origen appears to refer to the present passage or the tradition from which it derives when he states that Celsus associated certain warm springs with the subterranean place of punishment for the fallen angels. End quote from Nickelsburg and Vanderkam. And Heiser continues by saying, Black also offers this insight. Quote, This use of hot springs by kings may imply a knowledge of Herod's visits, giving some confirmation of dating the parables to around 40 B. C. End quote.

Okay, so chapter 68. Quote, And after that, my grandfather Enoch gave me the teaching of all the secrets in the book and in the parables which had been given to him. And he put them together for me in the words of the book of the parables. And on that day, Michael answered Raphael and said, [00:24:00] The power of the Spirit transports and makes me to tremble because of the severity of the judgment of the secrets, the judgment of the angels, who can endure the severe judgment which has been executed, and before which they melt away.

And Michael answered again and said to Raphael, Who is he whose heart is not softened concerning it, and whose reins are not troubled by this word of judgment, that has gone forth upon them, because of those who have thus led them out? And it came to pass, when he stood before the Lord of Spirits, Michael said thus to Raphael, I will not take their part under the eye of the Lord, for the Lord of Spirits has been angry with them, because they do as if they were the Lord.

Therefore, all that is hidden shall come upon them for ever and ever. For neither angel nor man shall have his portion in it, but alone they have received their judgment forever and ever. End quote.

[00:25:00] So, important thing to note from that chapter is that Enoch gave Noah some writings, and that's how, of course, we have the book of 1 Enoch. Or at least these parables.

And we have a discussion between the Archangel Michael and Raphael about the judgment of these wicked spirits and how they're not going to take part in the things that the wicked angels are doing, right?

Okay, so chapter 69 is a very long chapter and it also has a section that has a lot of the names of the angels. And I'm just gonna skip that part because you don't want to hear me pronounce all of those one after the other anyway. I'll have to pronounce some of them as we go, but there's no reason to make you suffer through my pronunciation of a whole list.

We're back to the context of the Son of Man here in Chapter 69, and a [00:26:00] lot of information about the angels.

Chapter 69, quote, And after this judgment, they shall terrify and make them to tremble, because they have shown this to those who dwell on the earth. And behold the names of the angels, and these are their names.

And then it goes through that list of names that I'm not going to read. Picking up in verse 4, The name of the first, Jequon, that is, the one who led astray all the sons of God, and brought them down to the earth, and led them astray through the daughters of men.

And the second was named Asbiel. he imparted to the holy sons of God evil counsel, and led them astray, so that they defiled their bodies with the daughters of men. And the third was named Gadriel. He it is who showed the children of men all the blows of death. And he led astray Eve, and showed the weapons of [00:27:00] death to the sons of men, the shield and the coat of mail, and the sword for battle, and all the weapons of death to the children of men. And from his hand they have proceeded against those who dwell on the earth, from that day and forevermore.

And the fourth was named Penemew. He taught the children of men the bitter and the sweet, and he taught them all the secrets of their wisdom, and he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper.

Thereby many sinned from eternity to eternity and until this day. For men were not created for such a purpose, to give confirmation to their good faith with pen and ink. For men were created exactly like the angels, to the intent that they should continue pure and righteous and death, which destroys everything, could not have taken hold of them, but through this, their knowledge, they are perishing, and through this, [00:28:00] power, it is consuming me.

And the fifth was named Kasjaya, This is he who showed the children of men all the wicked smitings of spirits and demons, and the smitings of the embryo in the womb. That it may pass away. In the smitings of the soul, the bites of the serpent, and the smitings which befall through noontime heat. The son of the serpent named Tabet.

And this is the task of Casbiel, the chief of the oath, which he showed to the holy ones when he dwelt high above in glory, and its name is Bikwa. This angel requested Michael to show him the hidden name, that he might enunciate it in the oath so that those might quake before that name and oath, who revealed all that was in secret to the children of men.

And this is the power of this oath for it is powerful and strong and he placed this [00:29:00] oath, ake, in the hand of Michael. And these are the secrets of this oath and they are strong through his oath. And the heaven was suspended before the world was created, and forever.

And through it the earth was founded upon the water. And from the secret recesses of the mountains come beautiful waters, from the creation of the world and unto eternity. And through that oath the sea was created. And as its foundation he set for it the sand against the time of its anchor. And it dare not pass beyond it from the creation of the world unto eternity.

And through that oath are the depths made fast. And abide and stir not from their place from eternity to eternity. And through that oath the sun and moon complete their course, And deviate not from their ordinance from eternity to eternity. And through that oath the stars complete their course, And he [00:30:00] calls them by their names, And they answer him from eternity to eternity.

And in like manner the spirits of the water, And of the winds, and of all zephyrs, And there are paths from all the quarters of the winds. And there are preserved the voices of the thunder, and the light of the lightnings. And there are preserved the chambers of the hail, and the chambers of the hoarfrost, and the chambers of the mist, and the chambers of the rain, and the dew.

And all these believe and give thanks before the Lord of Spirits, and glorify Him with all their power, and their food is in every act of thanksgiving. They thank and glorify and extol the name of the Lord of Spirits forever and ever, and this oath is mighty over them, and through it they are preserved, and their paths are preserved, and their course is not destroyed. Close of the third parable.

And there was great joy [00:31:00] amongst them, and they blessed and glorified and extolled, because the name of the Son of Man had been revealed unto them, and he sat on the throne of his glory.

And the sum of judgment was given unto the Son of Man, and he caused the sinners to pass away, and be destroyed from off the face of the earth, and those who have led the world astray, with chains shall they be bound, and in their assemblage place of destruction shall they be imprisoned, and all their works vanish from the face of the earth, and from henceforth there shall be nothing corruptible, for that Son of Man has appeared, and has seated himself on the throne of his glory.

And all evil shall pass away before his face, and the word of that Son of Man shall go forth and be strong before the Lord of Spirits. This is the third parable of Enoch. End quote.

Okay, so we had all of that angel stuff, and the close of the third [00:32:00] parable, and joy, and Son of Man, and judgment, and no more corruption, and all of that kind of great messianic news, right?

Now, we're going to read chapters 70 and chapter 71, and a lot of scholars think these are later additions by a later editor, and I'm just going to go ahead and read these chapters, and then we'll finish our discussion here about the parables.

Chapter 70. Quote. And it came to pass, after this, that his name during his lifetime was raised aloft to that Son of Man and to the Lord of Spirits from amongst those who dwell on the earth.

and he was raised aloft on the chariots of the Spirit, and his name vanished among them. And from that day I was no longer numbered amongst them, and he sent me between the two winds, between the north and the west, where the angels [00:33:00] took the cords to measure for me the place for the elect and righteous. And there I saw the first fathers and the righteous who, from the beginning, dwell in that place. End quote.

Alright, maybe I'll pause here for a second before I read the last chapter, because this seems to suggest, and this isn't the only place in the Book of First Enoch that suggests this, it suggests that the righteous have had a different dwelling from the wicked after they die, right?

If you read the Old Testament, there is a very strong suggestion that everyone, when they die, they go into Sheol, the Underworld, right? And there's several places here in the Book of First Enoch that suggest that it's a little more complex than that, and that in fact we have the Righteous and the Wicked in [00:34:00] different places.

Now, this is not the place for me to go into full on detail about this, because there is a lot to talk about here. I mean, you get into the New Testament context where you have the bosom of Abraham and the chasm and Lazarus and is that a parable or is that actually something that is happening and all of those kinds of questions. So it seems like between the Old Testament and the New Testament, there has been a change in idea of where people end up when they die, if they are righteous versus wicked.

Now, can it be said that that's actually the way that the Old Testament would have seen it as well? Well, the problem is I don't see anywhere in the Old Testament that suggests that there is a real distinctive difference. That the righteous do not, in [00:35:00] fact, end up in Sheol, but end up somewhere else.

It's my opinion that just because we have different imagery in the Book of First Enoch doesn't mean that we can then make some systematic change in our conception of the underworld in general, at least not for the Old Testament.

I can acknowledge that there is now a development of ideas where they're like, well, it doesn't really make sense that everyone ends up in a dark, gloomy, terrible place. Surely, the righteous are going to end up in a different place. And I don't know if there's enough detail to really make a distinctive difference to say that they're not in Sheol.

Again, this is going to be a longer conversation at another time. Because I think there's a lot to dig into as far as the Ancient Near Eastern context of the realm of the dead versus [00:36:00] what we seem to be having here in the Second Temple period.

Then we have the question of, is this even supposed to be literally taken or how much of it is figurative, right? Because that's going to really play into things and matter quite a bit.

But I didn't want to leave this chapter without mentioning that this is one of those places where we see a distinctive difference between where the righteous are verses where the wicked are in the afterlife. And specifically, I'm talking about the afterlife before the Messiah, and before the actual eschaton, and the culmination of all things.

If you guys follow the podcast Answers to Giant Questions, you might know that this conversation showed up recently there. And I think Tim Steadman has some really interesting ideas there, so maybe I can get him on here to actually kind of flesh that out a little bit more and [00:37:00] talk about it, because I'm not quite sure that I think the same way that he does, which is absolutely fine.

It leads to great conversation, and we don't have to be super dogmatic about this topic in my opinion, but I see a difference between what we see in the Old Testament and what we see in the Second Temple period, and I don't think we should read back into the Old Testament what we're seeing in the Second Temple period and New Testament if it's even a difference, which I'm not convinced there is. So, some things to maybe look forward to and we'll talk about later.

Let's read the last chapter of the parables of Enoch here in chapter 71, which says, quote, and it came to pass after this, that my spirit was translated, and it ascended into the heavens, and I saw the holy sons of God, they were [00:38:00] stepping on flames of fire.

Their garments were white, and their raiment, and their faces shone like snow, and I saw two streams of fire, and the light of that fire shone like hyacinth, and I fell on my face before the Lord of Spirits, and the angel Michael, one of the archangels, seized me by my right hand, and lifted me up, and led me forth into all the secrets, and he showed me all the secrets of righteousness, and he showed me all the secrets of the ends of the heaven And all the chambers of all the stars, And all the luminaries, whence they proceed before the face of the holy ones.

And he translated my spirit into the heaven of heavens, And I saw there, as it were, a structure built of crystals, And between those crystals tongues of living fire. And my spirit saw the girdle which girt that house of fire, And on its four sides were streams full of living [00:39:00] fire, And they girt that house.

And round about were Seraphine, Cherubim, Orphanine, and these are they who sleep not, and guard the throne of his glory. And I saw angels who could not be counted, a thousand thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand, encircling that house.

And Michael, and Raphael, and Gabriel, and Phanuel, and the holy angels who are above the heavens go in and out of that house. And they came forth from that house, and Michael, and Gabriel, Raphael, and Phanuel, and many holy angels without number. And with them, the head of days, his head white and pure as wool, and his raiment indescribable.

And I fell on my face, and my whole body became relaxed, and my spirit was transfigured. And I cried with a loud voice, with a spirit of power, and blessed and glorified and [00:40:00] extolled. And these blessings, which went forth out of my mouth, were well pleasing before that Head of Days. And that Head of Days came with Michael and Gabriel, Raphael and Phanuel, thousands and ten thousands of angels without number.

End quote here for just a second, because in this version, there is a presumption that Enoch cannot be, and is not, the son of man.

And so this version says that there is a, quote, last passage wherein the son of man was described as accompanying the head of days, and Enoch asked one of the angels concerning the son of man as to who he was, end quote.

This is here because there is a presumption that Enoch cannot be the son of man. Okay, let's finish the chapter here.

This is chapter 71, verse 14. [00:41:00] And he, the angel, came to me and greeted me with his voice, and said unto me, This is the Son of Man, who is born unto righteousness, and righteousness abides over him, and the righteousness of the head of days forsakes him not.

And he said unto me, He proclaims unto thee peace in the name of the world to come, for from hence has proceeded peace since the creation of the world. And so shall it be unto thee, for ever and for ever and ever. And all shall walk in his ways, since righteousness never forsakes him. With him will be their dwelling places, and with him their heritage, and they shall not be separated from him for ever and ever and ever. And so there shall be length of days with that Son of Man, And the righteous shall have peace, and in an upright way, in the name of the Lord of Spirits, forever and ever. End quote.

[00:42:00] Okay, so that is the end of the parables of Enoch, and there's a lot of detail here in chapter 71 that's really quite interesting.

And there's a reason that a Christian would read this passage and say that well, Enoch can't be the Son of Man because of a few different problems, right? Because we want the Son of Man to be Jesus, as indeed he is, but we also can acknowledge that this is not a canonical text, and so we shouldn't necessarily expect it to speak in canonical ways.

And to be fair, there are some manuscript variants here. We can't tell necessarily who is speaking to Enoch and what exactly is going on here, but it seems fairly certain that it's Enoch who is the son of man. And it's mentioned here in the commentary that this could well be a step toward the [00:43:00] angelification that we see in places like Second Enoch and that goes even further in Third Enoch, which are, of course, later texts. But I think I've made my case before that it can really be the case that Enoch could be the son of man here and that that wouldn't be all that strange for the time. One of the things as I read, especially, this later part of the parables of Enoch from my own history and my own faith tradition growing up, up is that this really sounds very, very Mormon in a lot of ways. For those who don't know, I was raised in the LDS church and that was my tradition for the first half of my life or whatever. By the time I got to be a young adult, I stepped out of that tradition and I'm now strongly into the realm of historical Christianity, right?[00:44:00]

So I don't affirm anything that the LDS Church teaches, but I do still have that history in my brain. And when I'm reading all of this, so much of this really sounds so much like what I was taught in the LDS Church. And that actually makes a lot of sense because they were quite a fan of the Book of Enoch.

They don't claim it's really canonical, necessarily, but then their views of canonical are different than what a Christian would view as canonical.

But for many, this is a highly regarded text that does speak a lot of truth, or maybe is entirely true, depending on who you're asking.

And for those curious, the types of things that really jump out at the page at me are things like name changes and secret names that are hidden in heaven. And when you learn [00:45:00] that secret name or you possess it, then there's a power that comes along with that. A lot of the language is very similar to the things that I would hear. And of course a lot of the language also just sounds frankly very biblical. So there is that. But a lot of the description of the visions sounds very much like what we have with the visions of Joseph Smith and the descriptions there.

So I guess the question is, is this a dangerous text then? Because if it leads people to conflate these ideas, while I'm saying that First Enoch is a really helpful text for us to read to get into that ancient mindset, is it also a dangerous text, because it does prop up some theology that sounds a lot like LDS theology, for instance.

I mean, it's a fair [00:46:00] worry. I often hear about people who want to read the Book of Enoch in a church setting, just for the instruction that it can give, not because they find it to be canonical. And they get a lot of pushback from pastors and leadership saying that it is a dangerous book.

And I can kind of see that from a certain perspective. If you are not solidly biblically grounded, meaning that you have read the Bible yourself, and you have the Bible's imagery and the Bible's ideas in your mind very solidly, then, when you read a book like First Enoch, and it sounds very biblical, then is your brain going to kind of mesh these things together and get a little bit confused?

I think that is a legitimate danger for people, possibly, right? And we shouldn't downplay [00:47:00] these kinds of ideas that, ooh, it's dangerous, like, well, that depends on what you mean, right? And it depends on who you're talking to, and what our goals are.

Now, I'm not a fan of saying that you should never read this or never read that, and banning books and all of that kind of a thing, because we know what happens when that happens, right? A lot of people will then be drawn more towards those things, and frankly, if you're going to be led astray by reading the Book of First Enoch, then you have a deeper problem than just reading the book of Enoch, right?

Because your problem is that you're not solidly grounded in following Jesus and understanding what the Bible is and the Bible's core place in our faith and our discipleship walk. If you don't already have that, then you're probably going to be led away by all [00:48:00] kinds of things, and the Book of Enoch is not your fundamental problem.

Your fundamental problem is really that you don't understand the Bible and its place in your own life.

And maybe I even say that wrong. I say you don't understand it, but maybe you do understand that, and you just don't accept it. And, you know, church leaders are really not comfortable with dealing with people in their congregation who kind of have these fuzzier ideas. And fair enough, I mean, that's a tough situation to be in.

And a tough situation to navigate, potentially, because we want the people who are attending church and the followers of Jesus to have the most solid theology and scriptures that they can have, right? We want people to understand that it's Scripture that is giving us a lot of our foundation for faith, right?

[00:49:00] And I have seen people say, well, the book of Enoch is very parallel here, and we see it quoted in the New Testament, so it should be scripture. So there's a lot of fuzziness here, and that is partially why I wanted to even read all of this.

Like, I don't really want to say that the book itself is dangerous, because ideas are just ideas. Just like technology is just technology. It's what you do with it, and it's how you're incorporating it into your life. And if you're incorporating something into your life in a negative way, then it's not really the thing itself that's the problem.

It's like your framework that's a problem, potentially. And maybe it's not a problem, maybe it's just potentially a problem.

Personally, I think it's very obviously not a canonical text, and I think the fact that Enoch [00:50:00] himself is the Son of Man shows that it cannot possibly be a canonical text, along with all of the problems that I've mentioned in previous episodes.

So, the fact that it has heretical ideas, that maybe even its ideas of salvation and theosis or angelification is really anti biblical or unbiblical, I don't see that as a problem because those are the things that show it for what it is. And if we hide away those things and tell people, well, don't look at that because it's dangerous.

I think that might be more dangerous than letting them read the dang book.

It is the case that heresy and bad ideas and dangerous theology exists everywhere, all the time. We're not going to be able to get rid of it by telling people not to read things or not to look at it. [00:51:00] Rather, it is shining the light brightly on those areas that is going to do the most good to show people the problems that are present and to show them why, hey, this over here is not canon and this is why.

We actually have reasons why. Because it doesn't match up with the other witnesses of scripture that we have.

Just because it's an old text doesn't mean it's a true text. Just because it's informative to our reading for 1st century Judaism doesn't mean that it's true or that the followers of Jesus would have thought all of these things necessarily. We had a very wide difference in Judaisms at this time. I've talked previously about sectarianism and how they had their own ideas of what it meant to be the people of God and what they had to do in order to usher in the messianic age.[00:52:00]

All of these different ideas were kind of percolating and flowing around. And it's useful for us to see all of these differences and to not just bundle them all together as if they're the same thing and say, well, we can't read any of that. It's not important. It's not worth our time or effort when really it's very much worth our time and effort.

Because, seeing the good parts in the parables of Enoch doesn't mean that there are not heretical or bad ideas here. I started the conversation today talking about salvation and parallels of the Flood and the Eschaton, and I wanted you thinking of those things, not because I'm saying that the parables of Enoch is necessarily in line with biblical salvation.

The question is, is it, and in what ways can that shine light on what we're [00:53:00] seeing? Personally, I am of the opinion that your average adult is pretty darn intelligent and able to work through a lot of complex thoughts and a lot of paradoxical things.

And I think we should trust people with solid information more. It's not having solid information, in my opinion, that is a really big problem. If you kind of tuck things away and don't let people see them, then they have no space or no ability to analyze those things. And that's not a great thing.

And personally, I find it hard to trust people who are going to tell me that I can't read something because it's too dangerous for me to read. That's not trusting in people to be able to participate and engage in their own learning on a really solid level. Personally, [00:54:00] I'm the kind of person who really likes questions and who doesn't find it threatening to enter into ideas that are maybe a little bit opposite what I already think.

If you can't do that, then you're not really engaging in those thoughts in a way that is constructive. Like, how can you even analyze something if you can't look at it clearly?

Now, we all come into things with our own biases and our own frameworks that we need to work things into, right? And that's not necessarily bad, and we're not going to be able to do away with those frameworks. Because, life would be far too complex, and that's really when faith falls apart for a lot of people. When they lose the foundation, and they no longer have a proper direction. Because, everything is just chaos. And it's fascinating to me that chaos is such a big theme in the Bible.

[00:55:00] Because it is chaos and not order that is the opposite of being able to construct a proper faith.

So we have to have biases. We have to have a framework that we start with. And that's the question. How solid is our framework? Where does it come from? What are we building it on? What are we trusting in? And the cookie cutter Sunday school answer of, I just trust in God, is not the answer that I'm looking for here.. That's really not how anything works because God is not standing in front of you dictating everything to you.

Rather, we interact with God and the divine through many kinds of mediators. We have the Bible. We have our parents. We have our church teachers. We have theologians. We have historical records. We have scientific [00:56:00] discoveries, even. We have our own personal prayer life. We have people around us who speak to us and tell us things that seem true or they don't seem true.

The ways that God manifests Himself to us is in a variety of ways. It is God who's doing it, and so you could say, Yes, I get my truth from God on some level, at least hopefully. But if you're saying that everything you believe and everything you see and everything you think is from God, then that would suggest that you're never wrong and that you have no learning to do beyond that.

And that's kind of the opposite of Bible study, right? It's the opposite of discipleship and maturing and learning and growing.

So I know I'm kind of going off on this tangent here, and if you've listened to this whole series on the parables of Enoch to this point, [00:57:00] you're probably already on board and I'm just speaking to the choir here. But perhaps you are in a position of helping others understand the value of thinking of things and reading other texts. And so I hope that some of these thoughts are helpful to you. I know the vast majority of my listeners are already great critical thinkers, and you love the questions, and you love the exploration.

And that is fantastic, and I absolutely adore you guys. But, I know there's a lot of new listeners who are trying to work through things, and I'm not saying I have all the answers, or that even you have to agree with me.

I'm just putting some ideas onto the table for you to consider, and hopefully kind of pick through and see what speaks to you, and what is helpful to you in your own study.

Again, I would absolutely love to have any questions that you guys [00:58:00] have. If you guys want me to continue reading through the Book of Enoch, I'm happy to do that, though I'll probably take at least a little bit of a break on that. I'm sure we will be talking more about the other parts of the Book of First Enoch in the future.

But coming up , I'm working on a few questions that people have asked me. And sometimes those make the best episodes, because people have fantastic questions. And I really appreciate that. I also just went to see Jordan Peterson. And so, yes, I will have a whole episode on what Jordan Peterson talked about in the lecture that I attended, which was a really cool topic, and I was so excited to hear him speak on what he did. So, you can look forward to that very soon.

And if you guys have any topics or questions you would like to hear from me, I would love to research them and see what I can pull up for you [00:59:00] about those. I hope this has been a helpful series to you. Again, get Dr. Heiser's Companions to the book of Enoch if you're reading through these books because some of it is kind of weird and having a little bit of commentary alongside is really helpful.

Again, this isn't a deep, deep commentary. It's called a reader's commentary for a reason, but it helps kind of orient you in reading these books and kind of give you that framework, which I hope these episodes do that for you as well.

If you guys have anything in the near future that you would like to hear, especially about tackling Flood issues and topics there. I would love to hear that. I feel like we've only just barely stepped our toes into the waters of the Flood.

There is so much more there, but I keep wanting to jump ahead in Genesis and other topics, and sometimes I do that anyway, because I just can't help myself. [01:00:00] Anyway, sorry for kind of rambling here at the end.

This is actually how I talk a lot of the times, so sometimes I just let that slip out.

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At any rate, I will end here, and I will wish you all a blessed week, and we will see you later.